It’s good to be a guy.
How good is it to be a guy? Soooooo good. We get to pee standing up. We don’t have to care about stupid things like throw pillows and panty lines. We get to fart and belch basically whenever we want. And sports. Oh man, are sports awesome. We don’t spend time focusing on life’s smallest minutiae, like some of you ladies are prone to. And, in what has to be the best part of all, we get to check out all the boobs we want, since the ladies insist on wearing shirts that show them off. Ladies, we salute you for that. We’re not sure why you do it, but kudos to you for it.
But wait, there are even more advantages to being a fella these days. It turns out that women everywhere are becoming more educated, thereby increasing their earning power. In fact, around most of the developed world, women outnumber men at university. In the U.S., women represent 56% of students on college campuses. In Australia, the number is even more pronounced, as female students are a full 60% of the total. It looks like the women’s liberation movement of the 1960s and 70s actually paid off.
As an aside, do you guys know of any, uh, study abroad programs for Canadian guys to go to university in Australia? Just curious.
Why are so many more women going to college than men? Firstly, all sorts of studies have figured out that women, as a group, do better in school than men. So they are more prone to continue their schooling. Young men are somewhat prone to making rash decisions like dropping out of school as well. Secondly, women still dominate industries such as teaching and nursing, careers that are generally pretty steady. On the other hand, men tend to dominate more physical jobs, things like the trades and construction. The problem with these male dominated jobs is that they tend to be more economically sensitive, leading to less steady employment.
The numbers back up that argument. In the United States, in October, the male unemployment rate stood at 9.5%. Meanwhile, the female unemployment rate was a full percentage rate lower, at 8.5%. Even though women still continue to get paid less than men for doing the same job (THAT’S SEXESS) they remain to be better at retaining that job, possibly because they get paid less.
This is the penultimate reason why it’s awesome to be a dude. Women are making more money than ever before. In just a couple generations, they’ve turned themselves from liabilities to financial successes. Many of them buy property and start saving for retirement long before some guy comes along to share that property. You go girls.
Wow, that sounded incredibly gay.
As a single guy who has goals of wealth, this presents me with a very good problem to have. If I can end up with a woman who makes a decent living, that’s all the more I can put into investments. Together, we can supercharge our savings and become independently wealthy that much sooner. Also, she could make me dinner. Yes, it’d be a match made in heaven.
Or, what’s also common is men marrying women who make considerably less than they do, with no immediate prospects to increase that income. This has happened for centuries. Once a guy gets to the point where he knows he’ll make decent money, the economic background (or future) of his spouse doesn’t matter so much. Her income is viewed as gravy, a nice added bonus.
So, now that women have succeeded in both furthering their education and becoming more financially independent than ever, why do they refuse to marry down?
If you ever take the time to browse the world of online dating, you’ll discover tons of smart, ambitious and successful women on there. And, just about always, they say they’re looking for the same in a guy. They’re not even subtle about it. They might as well write in big, bold letters LOSERS NEED NOT APPLY. Required on the first date are two years of tax forms and your net worth statement.
Women have had one great reason to care about their partner’s earning power, which was their lack of earning power. Now, especially with so many women holding useful degrees and decent jobs, that concern isn’t so important anymore. They expect to end up with a guy who makes at least the same amount of money they do. Is this a double standard? Or just plain good planning?
Look around at your married friends. How many of the wives make more money than their husbands? Sure, you can probably pick out one or two, but the definite majority married guys who out-earn them. Why is this so important, considering they have their own earning power? Is it because old evolutionary standards die hard? Is it because women still have this antiquated notion that guys should take care of them? Are women gold digging hussies?
It seems to me that women want to have it both ways. They want to maximize their own earnings, but still end up with a guy more successful than they are. They want to feel taken care of, yet independent at the same time. They fight for wage equality and equal opportunities, yet refuse to even consider dating someone who doesn’t meet their definition of success. They want to simultaneously take care of themselves and have a man take care of them.
Ladies, I get that you want to end up with a spouse who is able to support the family. Maybe you could just be a little more subtle about it. How pissed off would you be if a guy refused to date you because of your earning prospects? Enough with the double standard.
About 6 months after I got divorced, I decided to try dating. And I quickly gave up and decided to stay single forever. NOT because I have impossible standards or need a guy who’s more successful than I am, but because guys aren’t interested in a woman who makes more than they do.
I’ve told this story before, but I joined 3 online dating sites, listing my career accurately as psychotherapist. The few guys I talked to would drop off the planet after a few emails, saying I was “too smart” or “too intimidating.” I got frustrated and changed my profession on one of the sites to cashier at the Dollar Store, leaving my picture and other info the same. My inbox nearly exploded. How’s that for a double standard?
I don’t need anyone to take care of me – I’m perfectly capable of doing it myself. I was looking for someone who was similarly able to take care of himself. But apparently if a woman wants to be with someone simply because the two of them WANT to be together, not because they NEED to be for financial or other reasons, that’s a huge turnoff.
Very interesting experiment. If I get into online dating one day, I will seriously have to test it out on inputting two different jobs.
Andrea, out of few men you contacted, what were their professions and levels of education? Did you only talk to college educated professionals with similar incomes? Did you show interest in one blue collar man with an average income?
Currently, I know plenty of high school educated blue collar Joe’s and some lower-middle-class educated men that would have no problem dating a college educated, professional woman.
In your last paragraph you stated this: “I was looking for someone who was similarly able to take care of himself.” That is a very vague requirement because anyone who is self-sufficient could easily fall into that category, even if they drove a taxi for a living. Something tells me that a taxi driver wouldn’t get a response from you on a dating website.
In closing, I find it very hard to believe that you are not filtering men based on education and professional status. With all the single, lonely, sex-starved men in this world, I find it hard to believe that every unattached man you have encountered was intimidated by your success.
Wow, I can feel the heat of judgment glaring down upon me! Usually I talked to blue collar guys – I wanted someone who could actually do things around the house since my ex-husband was so useless in that area. I wouldn’t have a problem dating someone who works construction or drives a taxi! My ex is in law enforcement and only has a high school diploma. I’m not judgmental about someone’s income or career – I was just looking for someone I could talk to, who was actually interested in ME and not a one night stand. But apparently that’s harder to find than you seem to think.
You feel the heat of judgment glaring down upon you? Well, that’s funny considering how you generated a heat of judgment by saying that guys are not interested in a woman who makes more than they do.
And why do you feel that your ex-husband was useless just because he didn’t do things around the house? Imagine if a man said that a woman was useless just because she didn’t cook and do other types of housework. They would call him a sexist pig.
Surveys show that men want women to work so that they can spend more time at home with the kids. A lot of working mothers complain that they wish they could stay home more with their kids.
Perhaps the reason why men are intimidated by you is because of your attitude. You may be willing to be with a man who makes less than you do but in exchange, you want to be the boss. Society still tends to believe that a man’s income belongs more to the marriage and the family while a woman’s income belongs more to her.
It could be that you feel that since men are not making as much money as you are, they have no right to express their opinions and make decisions since you will be carrying the bulk of the financial responsibilities.
You want the man to work around the house, defend you when you say so, do all of the heavy lifting, obey your commands and make you happy. In other words, you want a loyal, obedient, soldier who will follow your orders. Men pick up on that and decide that they don’t want to be with you.
Andrea, keep looking! Dating success is a numbers game!
I definitely don’t want a guy that’s MORE successful, but equally so. I figure that if I’m willing to bust my butt and go to school and work two jobs and save up, I expect my significant other to do the same – for me it’s about valuing hard work. If he makes less than me, fine, as long as he works hard for what he does make.
Boyfriend makes more than me now but will make less than me when I graduate. He works hard, so that’s cool with me!
“I figure that if I’m willing to bust my butt and go to school and work
two jobs and save up, I expect my significant other to do the same”
Well said, I agree.
How can you measure hard work? I know high school educated people who work 80 hours a week and only clear 40k. Conversely, I know college educated people who work 40 hours a week and clear 75k.
I don’t think I’d be with my boyfriend if he was just high school educated, but I value education a lot more than most. I really, really love education. I expect my significant other to share my values too, because I would have (and did) pick someone who does.
I think the fact that those people are college educated means they worked hard to get where they are – sure they only work 40 hrs a week now, but they worked thier butts off in college to be something. I’m bias, and I know that. I admire those who you mentioned previously, working 80 hours with no education, but I say make life easier on yourself in that regard and get an education so you can work 80 hours and make $150K, haha.
For most people, it’s difficult to have a relationship with someone who has a lot less education. Education changes people, and that can’t be overlooked very easily. So it’s not just the money.
Women outnumber men in college, and in graduation rates. How will every college educated woman find an educated man? Also, it is mostly about the money. Educated women only claim to care about education, when in reality, they only care about education if the man is earning as much, or more. A female OB/GYN would not want anything to do with a male sociologist graduate who is working as a truck driver. Even though he has an education, he lacks the job prestige and income similar to her own. Women generally seek men of equal or greater means. Education is secondary.
Also, did you know that 50 years ago, educated men were very likely to marry uneducated women? It seems education did not become a relationship issue until women surpassed men in academia.
The author summed it up in this following paragraph: ”
It seems to me that women want to have it both ways. They want to maximize their own earnings, but still end up with a guy more successful than they are. They want to feel taken care of, yet independent at the same time. They fight for wage equality and equal opportunities, yet refuse to even consider dating someone who doesn’t meet their definition of success. They want to simultaneously take care of themselves and have a man take care of them.”
Sometimes women are their own worst enemies. It will be interesting to see how this plays out over the next few decades. We will finally be able to establish whether or not hypergamy is a social construct, or biologically instilled in women. It appears at this point in history, women would rather die single and childless before entertaining the idea of marrying down.
“sure they only work 40 hrs a week now, but they worked thier butts off in college to be something.”
And what, pray tell, do you think high school educated people doing while people like you were in school? While you were working hard in school, high school educated people were working hard at work. And what’s with the “be something” comment? It’s as if you are suggesting that you are not someone unless you have a degree.
The average college graduate will never make $150K, regardless of what the commercials told you. The average college graduate is working as a school teacher. social worker or nurse. Hardly professions worthy of an upper-middle-class income. Most are pulling down middle-class incomes, while living in blue collar neighborhoods .
Guys DO want sugar mammas!
1) If you don’t want kids, why not? But if you want kids, my earning power would be diminished for the period of having children (esp in a job like mine where it’s 100% travel and it isn’t good for the baby), and I need someone who can fill in the gaps there just in case.
2) Usually, if a guy is in a very low wage minimum job and I am at a professional level, it means he’s not in the same social circles as I am. Trust me, I know. It gets uncomfortable at gatherings when his friends are not anything like mine. I was once told that I used fancy English instead of normal English, just because i said: “I am not” rather than “I ain’t”.
3) I want someone who can pull their weight financially, the way that I can. I don’t need a millionaire, I need someone I can bond with and who works hard, and doesn’t just say: I will be a McDonald’s burger slinger forever har har.
4) Men don’t want women who intimidate them. I am controversial in saying this, but it is my experience when I meet guys who seem to like me, until they find out that I’m a consultant……
Agree on 2, 3, and 4!
I am with a man who earns less than half what I do, and he has 3 children from his previous marriage to support, so needless to say, his financial contribution is minimal to our life. He contributes in many other ways though, he does the lions share of the home chores, and does his best to make my life at home more enjoyable (he gets up earlier than I so I can wake up to a cup of tea in bed, and then makes breakfast while I get ready). He also works less hours than I do, so has time to do these things while I’m at work, so we can spend time together when I’m home. I do not feel like I support him because of his extra efforts.
He is my intellectual equal, although our knowledge is in different areas, so I never feel like I’m with an idiot, and in the same thread, he is not intimidated by me (I have come across a lot of men who are).
It took a while to become comfortable with this arrangement (we still have not “combined” our finances) but I feel that as we both are responsible and respect the other, if we are both happy with the way things are, what does it matter who makes more money?
One thing I read about the key to a happy marriage – marry a younger, smarter female (if you’re a male). We males should be seeking out smart females instead of fearing them – our marital overlords will keep us happy! (Disclaimer: This avatar is happily married.)
Not to mention, in first world countries many more females enroll in college. Pretty soon almost all females will have to “marry down”, so to speak… either that or stay single. Interesting stuff!
One thing I read about the key to a happy marriage – marry a younger, smarter female (if you’re a male). We males should be seeking out smart females instead of fearing them – our marital overlords will keep us happy! (Disclaimer: This avatar is happily married.)
Not to mention, in first world countries many more females enroll in college. Pretty soon almost all females will have to “marry down”, so to speak… either that or stay single. Interesting stuff!
I know of quite a few ladies who don’t want to date a guy who makes less than them because they honestly don’t think there are any men who would be OK with the notion of making less than their girlfriend/wife, and that’s just not some tension the ladies would be willing to deal with. There’s probably a bit of truth to that stereotype, too.
A lot also want the option of being able to stay home with their kids for a little while. Not necessarily to be a career housewife, but I’d say most of the ladies I know would jump at the chance to stay home with their kids while they’re babies, before returning to the workforce. Getting yourself into a relationship where you’re the breadwinner basically puts an end to that possibility. And honestly, that rationale, I get it. It’s not fair, per se (what if the guy wants to stay home with the kids?), but I do get it.
Men are attracted to sexy women with bodies that suggest fertility. Women are attracted to powerful men with various markers (job/paycheque/attitude) that suggest status.
A lot of women don’t actually want equality. They want all the benefits men get (respect in the working world, considered an intellectual equal, freedom to make decisions, economic independence) without giving up any of their own benefits (being protected, not paying for dinner, the ability to not work). So they need to ‘marry up’. The cognitive dissonance in the average North American woman is a spectacular demonstration of a logic fail.
Women don’t make less than men when you compare evens. Women ‘make less than men’ because:
-older women in the workplace who *did* start out at a severe disadvantage do not make the same as their male colleagues. This is irrelevant to the average woman to day though.
-the big one – women CHOOSE lower paying industries which reward in other areas – warm fuzzies and free time being the main culprits.
-women with the same degree as a man tend to choose jobs that again pay in flexible time, shorter hours, personal safety, and other ‘fulfillment’ areas rather than in high money.
-women frequently leave the workplace for a few years to raise children – meaning that ten years after graduation, they’ve only been in the workplace for seven years, and they are not continuous years, which is hard on a company. no surprise they are not making the same money as the men they graduated with. If you compare women without children, women with children, and men, it’s much more a parental divide than a gender.
-finally, women don’t negotiate near as well. Women tend to accept jobs as offered, while men are more likely to negotiate wage offerings, and ask for raises.
So barring a few industries (especially some trades) where women are still not accepted into the culture, and the odd bigot, women only make less than men because they choose to. Women who make the same choices as men are paid the same amount as men. Any gap left once we remove the bit of historical issue and the choices women make is down to statistically negligible.
Though, i suppose, as a man, interested in dating an average north american woman, you’d better keep saying women make seventy cents on the man’s dollar. Women aren’t usually big on being met with truth that contradicts their views.
This is my favorite comment ever. I agree with every word.
Thanks! I have no patience for people who won’t accept the consequences of their own choices.
And as a woman, I am frustrated by those who undermine the credibility of a group I cannot change being a part of. I think it would be much more helpful to work in the few areas where there really are issues instead of being dismissed as whiners who won’t shut up about a general gap that no longer exists.
Do you think women who require marrying up therefore need to be more attractive than average? What about the women who want to marry up, but aren’t?
The Well-Heeled Blog discussed this issue a little while back: http://www.wellheeledblog.com/2011/12/05/relationship-who-makes-more-money/
You’ll see from the comments that many women don’t care whether or not their man makes more than they do (and some do mind), but that several have experienced a boyfriend’s or husband’s dissatisfaction with the inequity.
Maybe it’s not so much that women are refusing to marry down but instead marrying their wage equals. If a woman makes $.75 to a man’s $1.00, then it stands to reason her $30K earning power is matched by a man with a salary of $40K.
Also, you suggested that women are more risk-averse than men. Then that should be all the more reason she doesn’t want to wind up with someone who is making $.50 to her $.75.
Moms don’t like their daughters to marry someone who doesn’t make enough to support them.
[...] Financial Uproar asked why women refuse to marry down? [...]
I think Melissa hit the nail on its head. A lot of women don’t want to date a guy less financially/professionally successful than they are, because most men will have problems with these types of arrangements and it will cause problems in the relationship.
I did a MA in criminology and one of my professors is an expert in violence against women, she has found that a woman is most likely killed by her male partner when she is working and he is not. This kind of extreme violence is rare, but it’s not uncommon for men to associate their salary level with a huge improtance. And money is a huge factor in relationship happiness. Why start out a relationship by looking for one factor that you know is going to cause turbulence?
I am not sure about all this. I never wanted to be supported and I believe that most women today should be independent. When my husband and I firt got together he did earn more than me but now we have swapped positions. I don’t mind and he doesn’t either – we have always managed to ensure that we pull in the same direction. I feel bad only when I am left with everything – earning, cooking, cleaning. Sharing values is important – but this is a matter of class and background rather than current income.
You don’t mind swapping roles now, after the marriage developed. The point is, you married him when he was the breadwinner. This article is harping on the fact that women won’t even consider doing what men have done for the longest time: marrying down. Many women are in your position due to instability in the economy. Wife marries breadwinner husband, husband loses job, wife becomes breadwinner by default. Hopefully in the future, we will see more women breadwinners walking down the isle with their less successful husbands. I won’t hold my breath though.It appears women are having trouble fighting evolutionary programming.
“Evolutionary programming” is a kind of a bullshit term tossed around by people who are too lazy to figure out what’s actually causing a discrepancy. It’s post-hoc rationalization for something they don’t understand.
Look at how we raise our children in society. Check out some kids’ toys or those annoying new baby cards. Girls from Day 1 are expected to be sweet, pretty, caring, nurturing- basically little mini housemoms. Boys are taught to be adventurous, strong, tough. As girls and boys get older, girls learn that being pretty is important and boys learn that money is important. Men are taught to be providers and women are taught to be caretakers. While that system is now pretty outdated, people are struggling with what that means when it comes to roles in a relationship. What you see with women tending to date up (and, in my experience, men tending to date down) is likely just a reflection of how they’ve been taught to expect a relationship to work. People have a really hard time turning against gender roles that they’re learned their whole lives- both men and women.
Susan, like it or not, men and women are different. I was taught to believe in god, too, but I don’t. Could it be possible that gender roles are innate? It has been going on for thousands of years. Even the role reversal in Sweden is not working out very well, with both women and men expressing resentment. You seem to assume that men and women could swap behavioral roles by changing the social conditioning. At best, that is just a theory. Men have spent the last 40 years hearing that women are our equals. Still, the gender roles appear to remain. My sister was never told to marry up, yet she did. I was never told to marry down, yet I have.
Guys are attracted to looks. Women are attracted to money because money = security. Study after study shows it, it’s human nature.
BTW, women who make tons of money, but will only date guys who make MORE than them, are totally screwed because women are out earning men in a lot of industries. I make good money and definitely date guys who make less, but the problem is a lot of them are painfully insecure about it. Not my problem. I’m outta there.
PS I wrote a post on Why how much money guys make is important to girls, all sorts of PO’d guys commented. It was a real treat.
Which post? I think I may have read it. Feel free to respond to this comment with a link. I’ll rescue it if it ends up in spam hell.
I’d love to read it too. Here’s mine:
http://www.financialsamurai.com/2011/12/21/beautiful-and-still-single-i-wonder-why/
Love to hear your thoughts.
Is that why male strippers are bald, obese, and missing teeth? Yeah, looks don’t matter to women. ~ end sarcasm
Women certainly appreciate attractive men, but that’s not the primary thing they expect to get out of marriage. There are different types of ‘attraction’.
Mark, male strippers are a LOT less common than female strippers. The ones I’ve seen (and I’ve only seen two at bachelorette parties) are NOT attractive. I’m definitely not going to weed out guys because they’re not gorgeous, whereas lots of men would do so with women that aren’t attractive. Men care a lot more about looks than women do. I don’t even think that can be argued.
Eh, you attract what you are capable of attracting. I seriously doubt that any of you would turn down an intelligent, muscular hunk, over an average looking intelligent man. Like men, you take what you can get, and adapt accordingly. We all want the best, but we settle for the rest. I know that’s not pc, but it’s true.
Unless you’re assuming that strippers are a good example of who we want to marry then that’s a pretty useless comparison.
Looks matter for both genders in terms of sexual attraction. But when it comes to picking a long-term partner, straight men tend to rank attractiveness as a more important attribute than straight women do. Women tend to go for things that indicate security (i.e. income). Why that’s the case is anyone’s guess. Some biologists say it’s inherent, but it’s just as likely to be socially taught.
I dislike good looking women.
Just kidding.
Women aren’t attracted to good looks and rock hard abs too?
WAIT, aren’t you the guy who posted the pic of that lady in the bikini at the beach and that big old guy on a recent blog post of yours??? and PS I just had a conversation with some girlfriends at brunch, we don’t want a guy to have a better body than us. I dated a tri-athlete once and he was such a drip because all he wanted to do was work on his abs.
[...] problems later. For now, let’s stay with the question Nelson at Financial Uproar asked, which is ‘Why do women refuse to merry down?’ Great post, good entertainment. Somewhat disappointing answer, though. Nelson, it doesn’t have to [...]
[...] have to include my internet boyfriend’s post called Why Do Women Refuse to Marry Down? I’ll admit to having stopped reading when he was finished listing all of the great things [...]
I make more than my husband –i make 2/3rds of the income, he makes 1/3rd. I do NOT like it, but I married him anyway. And yes, he is still working on his career. I’m hoping within the next 2-3 years we’ll be on the same playing field. The reason it bugs me, is because even though I make more money, I still am responsible for the majority of the housework. It seems that even though women are making more, we’re still the primary homemakers. So essentially, I still have a second shift at home once I’m done with my day job. It doesn’t seem fair. I’m stuck with making the majoirty of the income And doing a buttload of work at home. I’m ALWAYS working. When are men going to pick up the slack at home?
Who married him?
No-one is forced into a marriage, let alone an unequal marriage these days. When you move in with a person, it’s up to the two of you to negotiate who does what.
Usually, women tend to do a lot more housework because women care about the housework. If the housework was done by the man when it reaches the state at which he thinks it needs doing, the woman will be complaining. In most groups, cleaning is done by the person with the lower threshold for dirt. That’s much more often the woman.
If you have a problem with it, it’s up to you to negotiate with your husband that he does more housework (and then keep your mouth shut about how he does it). If you can’t do that, then you can either choose not to marry him, or you can decide that his benefits outweigh the fact that he doesn’t do much housework, and accept it.
I wouldn’t think the money would be the primary comparison though. If the issue is that of a ‘second shift’, then time makes more sense. If you two put in the same effort and time into your careers, but yours is more lucrative, the fact that you bring in more money really shouldn’t give you the right to dictate that he does the housework. If the complaint is that you work much longer hours and then have to come home and work more hours, you have more of a point. Otherwise you’re just saying that the person with less money should do the housework – and I doubt you’d agree if the tables were turned.
Thanks for your honesty saying “you do not like it”! I’ve never heard of that before… b/c men would never say I do not like making more than the woman. Hmmm.
Tell him to GET CRACKING ON THE HOUSE WORK! KICK HIS ASS, I’m serious! That’s bullshit if he’s not helping.
Some men will only pick up the slack when women make them do it. Do you really expect him to help with housework if he knows he can just sit on his butt and you’ll do it for him? You have the money, which means you have some extra power in the relationship- pull rank, tell him to stop being lazy and start helping out around the house.
Really? Her making more money gives her extra power?
Would you say that the man has the power to demand his wife keep house if he makes more money?
I personally don’t think it’s the amount of money that matters, but the hours each person puts in at work and how physically draining their work is. an 8 hour shift waitressing is physically more exhausting than a desk job, and I wouldn’t think it’s fair for the waitress to do housework because she makes less money. Same if the husband is the waiter, etc.
This pattern is pervasive.
Once, I went on a trip with about 5 couples. At dinnertime, all the women gathered around to make dinner, while all the men gathered at the TV to play games.
I outright told my boyfriend that he had better come over and help. Once he came over, I pointed out to him how all the women were working while the men were playing- even though we were all chipping in equally and had spent the day doing the same things. He said he had never realized. He now puts in way more effort in the kitchen and is learning how to cook. I have never let him forget that lesson.
You allow it like any human they will take advantage. In my house actually I do the cooking and I am a guy. Its fun for me, my wife does other things like laundry though I do that also. Its really about the guys mother. When looking to see if a guy will do their share, take a look first how the mother was and still is. We learn from experience.
I think it’ good to be a guy b/c we don’t have a clock and don’t have an inherent drive to marry. And since women don’t like younger men, as we get older we get a bigger and bigger selection! Check out a story I wrote on FS today about a good looking, rich girl who will likely still be single 5 years from now.
While I have a lot more independence and earning power than my grandmother or her mother, there are certain gender roles that haven’t shifted much. If I’m going to have children with a guy, I want a one who makes enough money to be able to help provide for them. Money isn’t the be-all, end-all when picking a husband, just like looks. But I’m not going to deny that it’s important. If I can get a nice guy who also makes a lot of money, why wouldn’t I?
A man complaining about double standards. Good grief.
I would have no problem marrying a lower earner, as a female. In fact, I’ve dated mostly men who are on track to have less education and less future earning power than me.
Here’s the issue I’ve run into: men don’t like that.
Sure, they all joke that they would love a sugar momma. But in my experience, men are often uncomfortable with not being the primary earners. We’ve all been taught from day one (implicitly or explicitly) that women are caretakers and men are providers. When those roles are reversed, it causes discomfort. It’ll probably take several generations before that effect starts to really fade. In the meantime, any women I know who are highly educated and make more money tend to date up in part because lower earning men act like controlling dicks to them. Some men just can’t handle the idea of women having the financial power, whether they admit it or not.
Another thing I’ve noticed is that men often refuse to do their fair share of the household and childcare stuff, either because they’re lazy and pretend to be inept as an excuse, or is isn’t “manly” enough for them. If I, as a female, can get a PhD, earn money, fix my own car, and operate a lawnmower, why the hell do so many men still pretend that they can’t cook dinner, wash a dish, or change a diaper? Ironically, this seems to be even more common among men who are lower earners. Maybe it’s because many low-earning fields tend to have more traditional/conservative people working in them. But my guess is that some men realize making less money isn’t “manly” and if they are also doing more housework, they feel effeminate.
Not that all men are like that, of course. I’ve been lucky enough to date a few guys who are truly 50/50 in terms of household stuff. And when that’s the case, I’ll gladly split the dinner bill and I could care less if they earn a bit less than me. But research has repeatedly shown that even when a woman is the primary worker, she does more than 50% of the housework. Quite a few men still seem to believe that women are the ones who need to do it all- they want us to make money AND take care of the kids AND have dinner on the table by 6pm. It doesn’t work that way. If men want women to shoulder more of a financial burden, men need to start pulling their weight at home.
My advice to broke men is that they learn to cook dinner and wash dishes like a pro.
Great post!
1) When my future husband and I have kids, I can imagine there would be a lot of pressure on me to be both the mother, wife and breadwinner. Not only, would I be worried about being a new mom, if I had to worry about the cheque book, as well, there is too much pressure.
2) I agree with FB, in my experience, guys say they like an intelligent woman with a sense of humour, but when they find out that I’m an engineer, I do feel that a lot of them feel intimidated.
3) I’m not the most ambitious girl out there, but I take pride in my career. My guy doesn’t have to be the CEO (or even future CEO), but I would have a problem if he was completely content making minimum wage/dead end job and never improving himself. I’d want similar life goals.
4) I can take care of myself. I think most of us can. But having a partner spouse, to me means that we can share life’s experiences and support one another so that we can be even happier together! Supporting can be the form of $$$, moral/emotional support, taking care of the house in any combination.
[...] Uproar shares his views on why women refuse to marry down and calls women out on their double [...]
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I don’t deny that this double standard exists. But then there’s the subset of women who actually don’t mind earning more than their partner.
On the flip side, there’s the inferiority complex problem of men who earn less, and resent the partner for being the breadearner. But then there’s the subset of men who are completely fine with earning less than their partner.
I think it goes both ways. And in the end, it really depends on the individual. I know girls who have this double standard without being able to explain why they feel that way, while I myself wouldn’t care if I ended up earning more than my husband. In fact, I don’t mind if he opts to stay at home- but he had better cook, clean and raise kids as well as I could if I stay at home!
As a man, if I emulated the standards that women have and applied them to my own life, I would never get a date. I must date women who have smaller incomes.
I only date at my level or higher, never really though of dating lower peasant girls, maybe I would not mind a one night stand with one but dating and marriage for real do I look like a bank account. If she makes more that fine not really bothered. Reason is simple no one know which profession will be in demand in what demographics or location. What makes more money in NYC is probably not going to always be in demand in say Houston TX.
I guess the other reason is that I think of women as nothing special, they are human just like me and will behave for the most part selfish and self centered just like me and most humans on the planet. Knowing reality and what people are really like makes it easier to deal with relationships in the long run.
I’m probably going to “marry down” according to your description. I have $200k in savings, he has $10k. I have a job that pays $100k plus bonus, he is unemployed. Yes, I’m a woman. Yes, I sometimes have thought of this as self-sabotage for the rest of my life. But I cannot accept that I cannot pull my own weight and then some in a marriage.
I would, however, like my s/o to be an equal earner in the long run. I am encouraging him to go to graduate school (he wants to) and helping him put together his application. This will likely help balance out our income at some point and maybe one day he will earn more than me. However, this won’t be for many years. I believe it’s better to “marry down” where you know the man really appreciates you versus marrying up. Maybe I’m just not an “attractive” woman (I’ve been told I’m a 6 or 7 by my male friends) so that could have something to do with it. But money makes men less happy with what they have, and that’s why the divorce rate is so high. So I’d rather marry down.
Great Stuff! I think Rachel is right on point. Here’s my input. While dating my wife, her salary was twice mine. So financially she married down. At the time she had a advanced degree, I had a BA. Education-wise she married down. However, I was secure in both areas. I knew who I was (being upwardly mobile – always looking to improve myself) and not intimidated by those two factors at all. In fact I thought she was quite generous. That was one of my attractions to her. On the other side, she was very “bossy.” Her generosity came with a hidden price.
Over time, I gained my specialized advance degree. Because of that, my career took off. I now make 3 times (no joke) what she made when I met her. While currently her income decreased (changed careers). I take care of/pay for everything. Hence the wife wants to be taken care of, even with all her education and skills. Still tries to be “bossy.” It is not allowed. I prefer working together. She is and remains very independent and not very supportive of goals other than hers (yes I know, very selfish).
In summary: Men are not intimidated by higher professions; its the attitude/controlling/bossiness that comes with the package, which men don’t like. Equal pay for equal work is fine. In relationships, women still want to be taken care of, while the education is the employment safety net should marriage/things not work out. Or, if the husband is not making enough income – she will have the income to provide the lifestyle she believes she should have.
So here is… ‘marrying down’ which became ‘marrying up.’ LOL! The issue is really about expectations and her wanting it all, isn’t it?
College is an illusion to intelligence, wealth, and success. College is a path to poverty not better standards of living. Hope all those girls have daddies paying for those overpriced pseudoeducational institutions.