Your Income Goals? Probably A Fantasy

If you're new here, you may want to subscribe to get stock tips or have investing ideas delivered to your email. I'm also on The Twitter.Thanks for visiting!

Recently, a certain blogger who heads a certain blog network (you need to pay more attention if you can’t figure out who I’m talking about) ran a post about the ideal income and amount of time worked per week ratio. He decided that spending 20 hours per week to make $200k per year. Assuming this person works every week of the year and doesn’t take any holidays, that’s a little over $192 per hour. That seems totally realistic.

Not to be undone, all sorts of people chimed in with their ideal income and hours per week. Let’s sample a few:

I’d like to gross $200,000/yr and work 30hr work weeks.

I’d probably like to work around 20 to 30 hours a week. Income would be tougher for me to determine at this point but ideally my minimum would probably end up at least 100,000.

My magic number at this point in my life is $150k…  I would like a 20 – 30 hour week.

My ideal income would be $300k combined… 20 hours a week would be ideal.

I think $200,000 sounds like a good number for me to shoot for, but I think I would like to work 4 hard (normal) hours (per day).

There’s more, but you get the point.

You guys don’t need me to point out these income goals are a bigger fantasy than my threesome with Taylor Swift and the Call Me Maybe chick. Anybody with a brain can figure that out. Hell, anybody with an empty shell of a head where their brain used to be can figure that out. But hey, selling a fantasy life is hard work.

I’m not here to tell you that you can make $100k per year just by working 20 hours per week, since doing that is incredibly difficult. It either requires you to get to the very top of your field (which is only possible by busting your ass, ironically) or to have ample amounts of capital to invest in things that spin off semi-passive income. Sure, you can do it, but it’s harder than figuring out why exactly your girlfriend is mad at you. But it’s definitely your fault.

I don’t know many of the people who made those income goals from above, but I’m willing to go out on a limb and say that ABSOLUTELY NONE OF THEM have a realistic plan to get there. No, your blog isn’t going to transport you to instant riches. No, your lottery ticket isn’t just waiting to get cashed in. And no, nobody is just waiting to pay you large amounts of money for a night of love. You’re just some normal guy who has no choice but to make a normal living. You’re just not that special.

I’m a big fan of pushing for passive income. There are all sorts of ways for you to make income passively. Just browse through my archives, you’ll find all sorts of stuff on it. And of scantily clad women. I’m equally proud of both of those. But there’s a difference between beginning to grow your passive income and living on Gumdrop Lane in Candyland.

For most people though, passive income should be almost an afterthought. Why? Because, without exception, you make a hell of a lot more from your day job than all your passive income sources combined. How about you focus on that for, say, 30 years before you really start to focus on making income passively?

I’m not suggesting you throw up your hands and abandon any attempts to make money passively. But when you’re first starting out on this path, accumulating capital is just as important as the return you get on that capital. Since you have these silly expenses like food and shelter, most of your income will probably go towards them. The rest becomes the basis of your passive income.

As much fun it is to talk about passive income, most people aren’t in a position to have their passive income really matter. They’d be much better off if they focused more attention on their day jobs. A promotion can easily make a white collar worker an extra $10k per year. That same worker would need $120,000 worth of capital (at an 8% return) to accomplish the same thing passively. Which is easier to do?

Have you seen the people who make up our workforce? They’re a bunch of lazy maroons. People duck out regularly to watch their kids play baseball or butcher perfectly good plays. They spend more time discussing their love lives than ACTUALLY DOING THEIR JOB. We all have those people in our offices who always seem to have some reason why they need time off. Maybe you’re one of those people. If you are, you’re not going to like the next couple paragraphs.

The number one thing you can do right now to improve your financial situation is to earn more money. For most people, the most effective way of doing this is to earn more at work. To get there though, you’re going to have to put in some effort. You might have to start coming in early and staying late. You’re going to have to make a specific effort to improve your skills. Rather than kissing your boss’ ass, actually impress her with measurable results.

In my job, this is easy, since I get paid commission. To increase my salary, I need to increase the number of bags of chips I sell. The top performing salesmen get bumped up a level. It’s very easy to identify the best chip salesmen. It might not be as easy to identify the best computer programmers, which is why you need to figure out your own way of standing out.

You shouldn’t ignore passive income completely. Passive income is your key to financial independence. But you’re never going to accomplish much passive cash flow without making a decent living and finding ways to minimize your living expenses. And then, only after years and years of self sacrifice, will you be in a position to actually make 6 figures per year while doing very little work to maintain it. It’s not easy. Hell, it’s incredibly difficult. Which is probably why it makes me so mad to have those people from above throw out ridiculously optimistic expectations without even the beginning of a plan to back them up.

25 comments on this post.
  1. greg:

    funny you should mention measuring programmers and kissing ass.  The recent article on Microsoft culture argues the two are one in the same =P

  2. PK:

    “It might not be as easy to identify the best computer programmers, which
    is why you need to figure out your own way of standing out.” There is a story from the early days of Apple when they used to measure programmer efficiency by the number of lines of code they wrote.  Bill Atkinson was one of those programmers, and one week he rewrote a function to be, at least, more space efficient.  A “-2000 lines” ended that program for good.

    Like everything else – if you want to stick out as a programmer?  Be social and work a ton.  I wish there was a secret in my industry, but it’s unrealistic to think you can make a ton of money part time.

  3. Mochi & Macarons:

    Whoa whoa..

    $200K at 20 hours a week as PASSIVE INCOME?

    I can see for instance in my job, I can be benched once in a while, where I sit at home and twiddle my thumbs until the next project while getting paid.

    But I don’t plan for that. If I planned for that beached time….:

    a) I’d be bored as hell
    b) I’d switch jobs because my skills would stagnate and deteriorate
    c) THEY’D FIRE ME

    Making a lot of money in any profession means you need to work your butt off to get to that 6-figure income range, and that is ACTIVE income. 

    To imagine you can get 6-figures doing jack all before you’re retired with millions in the bank, is just.. wow.

    Lastly, blogging is not passive income. Any blogger will tell you this, myself included. It does NOT run itself.

  4. Bryan:

    You might have a shot with the Call Me Maybe singer. You’re both Canadian, right?

  5. Your Income Goals? Probably A Fantasy » Financial Uproar | Passive Income Stream:

    [...] a lot more from your day job than all your passive income sources combined. … Excerpt from: Your Income Goals? Probably A Fantasy » Financial Uproar ← How to Create Multiple Streams of Income – Patrick [...]

  6. Jonathan:

    It’s interesting to me to see how certain you are that all this is impossible or at best implausible and unrealistic to aim for. Interesting because a close family member has done all this and more. As long as you consider real-estate income as “semi-passive” instead of active, at least. This person can choose to work as little or as much as he’d like, and probably spends less than about 10 hours in an average week doing things related to the business.  His hourly income is well north of $1,000 (some years 3-4 times that). He started his investing around 30 years ago, with very little capital and at the same time as he was beginning a blue collar business.

    I am working to follow a similar model by acquiring rental properties, and it is certainly a workable plan. Between my first 3 properties I spend an average of probably 2-3 hours a month in management, and they make close to $12,000 per year – quick math tells me that’s more than $300 an hour.

  7. Mochi & Macarons:

    I think maybe what he’s referring to is that most people don’t have a plan to get there, they just want it.

    They’re just throwing numbers out without understanding what it would take to get there. Easy money, so to speak.You sound like you have a plan or at least a model to follow to reach your goal, but you’re also aware that it takes time (30 years), patience, and (obviously) diligent savings.

  8. Mochi & Macarons:

    Programmers have a stereotype that they’re geeks who are awkward and can only talk in code.

    What you’ve said is exactly true for a lot of professions — be social, work hard and connect with people.

    It’s all about networking and getting your name out there, but not about ass kissing (which I loathe).

    The other thing I try to keep in mind is to be professional as possible. Efficient, to-the-point, helpful and to do what I do (and love to do) really well.

    You’ll naturally stand out with that kind of behaviour.

  9. Earth and Money:

    I’m sure there are people who are able to achieve this. And they thrive on telling others that they can do it to, when the reality is that most can’t. Its an unfortunate situation.

  10. Anonymous:

    Exactly what M&M said, Jonathan. It’s possible, but not without a lot of sacrifice, patience, a concrete plan and then solid implementation of that plan. 

    And for the sake of your family member, I sure hope his real estate empire isn’t located in Toronto or Vancouver. 

  11. Anonymous:

    $200k per year at 8% passively means you need a $2.5M nest egg. And you’ll need to amass it by like 40, or else you’re not retiring early. Like 8 out of 10 people do that, right?

    Of course, naysayers will quickly point out that it can be done, all while ignoring the implausibility of it all. I think that’s what makes me most mad of all. 

  12. Anonymous:

    It’s the making money on the internet formula. I think a full 95% of money made on the internet is telling other people how to make money on the internet. Well, that and porn.

  13. Anonymous:

    Indeed she is. Do you think it would turn her on if I sang her song back to her?

  14. Mochi & Macarons:

    Agreed. We are all working towards just getting ONE million saved for when we are 65 let alone $2.5M and in investments giving an 8% return.

  15. Value Indexer:

    That hourly rate is a bit lower unless you got the property for free. The real hourly rate would be (income – (amount invested X estimated financial return)) / hours. Which is the point of the article… the easiest way to end up with a million dollars is to start with a billion and spend a lot!

    But all the same it’s a far more solid plan than most people have. It would even sound good if I didn’t hate having people call me in the middle of the night to complain about things :)

  16. Value Indexer:

    There is an alternative to having a lot of capital, if you have enough skills, experience, and intelligence to do really big things in a short time and you make sure you’re paid well for them. But then the years you spent building that is similar to accumulating capital. And the average person can’t be above average.

    If you believe a certain blogger who may have paid more than that amount in taxes in one year while working hard, that would at least demonstrate willingness and ability to go far above average. I don’t think writing a comment on a blog gives someone quite the same qualifications to reach those goals though.

  17. Mochi & Macarons:

    All good points.

  18. eemusings:

    The thing with passive income is it takes money to make money.

    Sounds like you’re in the Ramit Sethi camp of maximising your income, as that’s where the biggest wins are.

  19. Bridget:

    I agree with all of this even though I have the sneaking suspicion the first comment is my own — $200,000/yr and 30 hour work weeks is my ideal.

    My full-time job is limited for earning more money because it’s government and union regulated. By some miracle of god (and a lot of nagging and paperwork) I managed to negotiate a bigger raise than I was due for, but it was a pain in the ass and I think very few people are willing to push that hard.
    In any case, most of my extra income comes from elsewhere, namely the blog and freelance writing projects. Passive income is a very, very small part of the equation and I recognize it will probably be 15 years before it really counts for anything. Still important to get the ball rolling now.

    I just completed my first year of full-time work since graduating. My career has just started. I have tons of time to take it in any direction I want, and it’s off to a very good start. I’m not entirely sure where I’ll end up yet, but I don’t think $200,000/yr and shorter work weeks is wholly unrealistic…. it’s just going to come after a decade or two of 60-80hr work weeks and continuously increasing salaries =\ haha

  20. Nelson Smith:

    Okay, let’s crunch some numbers. You state “but I don’t think $200,000/yr and shorter work weeks is wholly unrealistic…. it’s just going to come after a decade or two of 60-80hr work weeks and continuously increasing salaries”

    Let’s assume (and I think I’m being incredibly optimistic here) that you somehow find a job that pays you $100k per year for a 30 hour workweek. (based on 50 weeks per year, that’s $66.66 per hour, to put things in perspective) If these jobs exist, they sure don’t exist in my world. However, let’s assume you find one. That means you’ll have to spin off $100k a year in passive income.

    Let’s assume your passive investments get an 8% return. You’ll need $1.25M at 8% to make an extra $100k in passive income.

    How much do you need to save to get to $1.25M over “a decade or two”? Here’s what you’ll have to save per year, again assuming an 8% return:

    10 years: $80,000

    15 years: $43,000

    20 years: $25,500

    Oh, and these numbers are actually artificially low, since they don’t factor in taxes.

    Aren’t you the girl who recently tapped out because putting $1000 a month toward your debt was too much?

    So I guess you’re right… it’s not wholly unrealistic. But I still like my Taylor Swift/Carly Rae Jepsen threesome odds better.

    That’s what makes me so mad about posts like the one I refused to link to. It takes an incredible savings rate (or all sorts of luck) to achieve financial independence in 20 years. Or, someone magically handing you a job where you get paid assloads of money for 30 hours per week. Good luck with all that.

  21. Nelson Smith:

    Ramit and I have similar messages, but mine don’t scream “buy my stuff!” with every post.

  22. Bridget:

    jesus why do you hate me so much?

    You’re looking at this entire equation totally different than I am.

    Let’s say I pull in $100,000 next year, and increase my earning potential every year by 10% (accomplished primarily by working 60-80hr work weeks for the next 15 years). Assuming I retire in 35 years, my income that year will be just over $280,000.
    Maybe when I hit my $200,000 target and slack off and that’s when I can cut down my work from 60-80hr work weeks to 30hr ones, so I don’t ever reach that $280,000 income or maybe I’ll feel like busting my butt my whole life and I’ll just keep going. Maybe I’ll earn more.

    (The above isn’t necessarily my plan since I am entertaining going back to school for a career change and that would kill my income for a year or two but would result in a higher salary afterwards so the payoff might be worth it).

    You have to do the time for the money for sure. My expectation was never to coast at 30hr work weeks for the entirety of my working lifetime, but instead work hard at the beginning when I have energy and no obligations (family, etc.) and then relax later.

    Also, I would never expect to earn $100,000 in passive income. My expectation is that my working income will always be my main source.

    Yes, I’m the girl that recently tapped out at $1,000/mo debt payments — but I save more than that per month so doing both was getting difficult because I don’t make $100,000/yr right now!

  23. Nelson Smith:

    “Let’s say I pull in $100,000 next year, and increase my earning potential every year by 10% (accomplished primarily by working 60-80hr work weeks for the next 15 years). Assuming I retire in 35 years, my income that year will be just over $280,000.”

    Nope. It’ll be $450,000.

    Also, according to what I could find online, the average Canadian employee can expect a 3% raise next year, which sounds about right. Are you really expecting that you’ll outpace the average person by more than 3x and maintain it for your entire working career? Sure, the average person is pretty stupid, but I think that seems a tad bit optimistic. And that you’ll maintain 60-80 hour weeks without stopping because you’re distracted by a boyfriend/travel/babies? Again, seems optimistic.

    I suppose it wasn’t so much the $200k I had the problem with. Plenty of people make that much. I know at least a handful of people who do. And, without exception, they work their ass off for it. There’s no 30 hour weeks. They’re putting in 50-80 hour weeks. That’s the issue I continue to have with this – that people think they can make great money and not have to work that hard. Sorry, but the world doesn’t work that way.

  24. Bridget:

    Shit I really messed up some math there =\

    I’m not sure what direction my career or life will take but I know that I make more than average now so why not set the bar even higher?

    Since I started my job last year, my salary has increased 8%. Maybe this was a lucky year, but that’s significantly more than the 3% average you listed. I hardly intend to stay in this position indefinitely — maybe 3-5 years and then seek a higher-paying position in a more challenging role. Because that’s what you have to do if you want to earn more than average: do more than average work.

    I was never of the camp that said you can get that much money without working hard. I’m pretty sure in every response I’ve insisted that it’s a ton of work that I’m willing to put in. I have no idea if I’ll be distracted by boyfriends, babies or travel, but at this point none of the above have gotten in the way of climbing the corporate ladder (two of the three are a non-issue) so I’m not going to do myself the disservice of adjusting my goals down to accommodate any “maybes” or “somedays”. I’ll cross those bridges when I come to them, in the meantime, all I will do is work.

  25. Stocks Are Not Impulse Purchases - Financial Uproar » Financial Uproar:

    [...] I’m 99.9% sure Brig thinks I hate her. Go here for further confirmation. I really don’t. It’s just, well, she makes it so easy. I can’t help it. It is my [...]

Leave a comment